Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )


 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> My Critic of the Hand to Hand Combat
jvempire
post Dec 22 2012, 07:25 PM
Post #1


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 22-December 12
Member No.: 12,443



This has all probably been talked about already, but take it as reiteration if it has. Also to clarify, I really didn't have an issue with the weapons whether it was the guns or sword/hammer(and I had more fun with them) which I guess is no surprise since it is source engine.

The combat is very wonky. Obviously to do well in the game you need to do more than the standard attacks, you need to do counters and such. The issue with the counters for me is two things. First, the regular attacks all the enemies do are too quick to react to, meaning they aren't really counterable, or even too quick to react with a block either. Second, heavy attacks enemies do are very unclear, and it's difficult to really tell when to hit the space bar to counter them. It's just in the nature of the animations that the attacks are quick, meaning in the heat of the battle with multiple enemies on you it's ridiculous for the player to perform all these twitch reflexes. And that's where the game really falls apart, when there's multiple enemies in a tight space. Which melee combat should do well in those situations consider it's close corners combat, but that's where my frustrations are. The combat is lacking a flow, instead it just feels janky.

I know Zeno Clash 2 is in development, so I truly hope the hand to hand combat is significantly improved. I really enjoyed the surrealist atmosphere of the first game, which I'm kinda sad that the gameplay somewhat ruined the immersion for, so that's why I hope there are improvements for the next game. I hope this critic was somehow useful, and good luck to ACE Team!

Edit:
To give another example, the challenge tower is much more enjoyable than the campaign. The challenge tower arena are big enough to allow the player to maneuver (plus weapons) and doesn't have to rely on counterattacks unlike some areas of the campaign which have tight corridors.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Carlos Bordeu
post Dec 24 2012, 08:09 PM
Post #2


Super Member
****

Group: Developers
Posts: 2,177
Joined: 11-April 08
From: Santiago, Chile
Member No.: 4



Deflecting is being made easier in ZC2 and we have a new back kick to counter enemies that attack from behind. I don't see why you feel blocking requires timing since you can simply hold down the block button before being attacked (no timing required)... but maybe I'm misunderstanding you there. The bread-and-butter of the melee combat would be the elude->counter (Attack while eluding). This requires some timing but definitely not as much as deflecting, and this feels relatively similar in ZC2 (but also a little easier to perform).

Some aspects of the melee combat are being made so they can be done with a bit more ease, so I suppose you should be more comfortable in ZC2. A agree that a problem with the difficulty for many people was fighting against several enemies, so we are trying to improve that (though many people seemed to enjoy the high difficulty level of multiple-enemy combat a lot and we don't want to take that away from the title).

I appreciate your critique (we listen to what everybody posts), but I do have to say that your comments fall on the opposite side of what the majority criticized: The gunplay. Most people enjoyed more the melee combat and disliked the weapon combat.

We feel that ZC1 needed a easier lowest difficulty level for those who got frustrated with the melee combat. Again, thanks for posting and I hope you enjoy the sequel's gameplay more (which will have more than just the fighting). You will also be able to play with a friend in coop if you want to level the fights against groups. smile.gif

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jvempire
post Dec 26 2012, 03:45 AM
Post #3


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 22-December 12
Member No.: 12,443



QUOTE (Carlos Bordeu @ Dec 24 2012, 04:09 PM) *
Deflecting is being made easier in ZC2 and we have a new back kick to counter enemies that attack from behind. I don't see why you feel blocking requires timing since you can simply hold down the block button before being attacked (no timing required)... but maybe I'm misunderstanding you there. The bread-and-butter of the melee combat would be the elude->counter (Attack while eluding). This requires some timing but definitely not as much as deflecting, and this feels relatively similar in ZC2 (but also a little easier to perform).

Yeh a bit of misunderstanding. What I mean is, to counter you need to twitch reflex the block button, which while it's rewarding for skilled players but it's definitely a requirement if there's multiple enemies. To explain my dissatisfaction with the combat I'll use Demon's Souls as a counter example. In that game the player has the choice in either doing combat the regular way, which would be to shield the attacks then attack while the enemy is exposed, or if the player is skilled they can parry attacks (shield deflect right when attack is about to hit you). Also for another example, in Zeno Clash it's hard to tell what attacks the enemy is going to do, and you fatigue easily. In Demon's Souls it's much more easier to figure out enemies attack patterns, and the shield gives some breathing room for the player. Now I'm not telling you to copy that game or anything, I'm just trying to contextualize my ideas a bit more.
QUOTE (Carlos Bordeu @ Dec 24 2012, 04:09 PM) *
Some aspects of the melee combat are being made so they can be done with a bit more ease, so I suppose you should be more comfortable in ZC2. A agree that a problem with the difficulty for many people was fighting against several enemies, so we are trying to improve that (though many people seemed to enjoy the high difficulty level of multiple-enemy combat a lot and we don't want to take that away from the title).

I completely understand about not want to lose that difficulty. I believe the annoyance I got from multiple enemies came from if I had to fight them in close corridors. In ZC1 at least if there were multiple enemies and it was an open area, the player had room to maneuver, unlike in small spaces which forces the player to counter or they will fatigue out.
QUOTE (Carlos Bordeu @ Dec 24 2012, 04:09 PM) *
I appreciate your critique (we listen to what everybody posts), but I do have to say that your comments fall on the opposite side of what the majority criticized: The gunplay. Most people enjoyed more the melee combat and disliked the weapon combat.

We feel that ZC1 needed a easier lowest difficulty level for those who got frustrated with the melee combat. Again, thanks for posting and I hope you enjoy the sequel's gameplay more (which will have more than just the fighting). You will also be able to play with a friend in coop if you want to level the fights against groups. smile.gif

The gunplay was neither here nor there. I did like the guns because it was easier for me to do damage on to enemies.

And I'm looking forward to ZC2! ZC1 definitely has a unique look and an absurd setting, which I'm interesting in seeing where you guys take it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: