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> ZC2 First Impressions / Opinions / Theories
Skaadi
post May 1 2013, 10:19 AM
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Sooo! I just finished my first playthrough and it was fantastic! I think I (somehow) like it more than the first, it really was excellent. I kinda just rushed through it though so I've probably missed like half the content, but hey, that's for my 2nd one.

I was a little skeptical about the whole open world thing, but it ended up working really well. It gave the world a lot of depth and the different areas were all gorgeous, especially the Rathbird Fields. I'm kinda disappointed that I didn't buy the special edition, because the soundtrack was amazing too.

Now if you don't mind, onto the questions / theories

So it turns out the Golems started out as something else before they became....androids? constructs? cyborgs? I think you guys have stated before that the whole thing doesn't take place on earth, but it got me thinking. In that area after end world there's random things like a grandfather clock, a piano and a bookcase, which seem like really human/earth things.Plus you have all the odd things the Golem's own, chess boards etc. And those rolling statue things + elite shadows all seem to have faces that look like they've come from Grecian / Roman statues? It just got me wondering if perhaps the golems were human constructions / creations. I'm almost positive I'm wrong here, but putting all those things together it makes for an interesting, if half thought out theory.

Anyhow, I had a million other things that I wanted to talk about, but I'm sure I'll remember them later.
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Andres Bordeu
post May 1 2013, 03:42 PM
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I think we never said that it didn't take place in earth. Actually, from what you've seen it becomes evident that Zenozoik is somewhere in the future and that's why there are remnants of our current civilization lying around. It is earth.
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Skaadi
post May 1 2013, 03:59 PM
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Ah must have remembered wrong. But wow, I....was not expecting my theory to be even half right. That's really cool.
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Golden Yak
post May 1 2013, 04:00 PM
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Waaack! A startling reveal! I've got questions myself, but I'm waiting until I get the last of the keycubes and check out the Tomb before I do so. I'll just say so far the game is a blast and the story is even more intriguing and compelling than the first.
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Skaadi
post May 1 2013, 04:11 PM
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Well I suppose that leads me to:

Were the Golems human at one point? I've actually been wondering whether the odder Zeno races were simply super evolved birds / rodents / whatever else, or a mixture of that and humans. So do the Golems predate the evolutionary divergences? It just got me wondering whether they used to be human or some race of their own.
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Carlos Bordeu
post May 1 2013, 04:41 PM
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All Golems were once human and they chose to become Golems. You can see this in the dialogue exchange between Kax-Teh and Xotl-Teh in the final battle.

The origins of "chimeras" (all the animal type races) which is what lead to the creation of Zenozoik, could have been something more spontaneous and not necessarily natural, as the stone tablets tell. Men were incapable of dealing with a social structure that included the chimeras and because of this they were exiled.

The existence of humans among chimeras in Zenozoik is due to the fact that in early times when the chimeras were exiled, groups of people moved into Zenozoik for unremembered reasons. Whether they were against the exile, or if they were there to aid the chimeras, or if they were there to oppress them... it is unknown. Some humans were just left behind, trapped in exile, and also forgot their origins.
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sere
post May 1 2013, 05:17 PM
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only now am i getting time to enjoy it for hours straight. had some obligations but now that they are out of the way its 2 days straight of zeno clash and ice cream headache.

so far it is in my top 3 most gushy video game experiences. at first it was rough around the edges starting the bar and first impression was drab environment but it was like a cheap trick because everything opens up and really floors you with color and detail... nothing short of amazing. i cant wait to find out why i have collected over a dozen butterflies.

the only thing that falls short for me is the english voice delivery. the orginal pc release of zeno clash had the best voice work imo. the ultimate edition for 360 replaced with a voice that did not fit as well as the original track. i guess the emotion in the voice did not fit the emotion of the face very well. now rmat is delivering without any special quality or personality. i personally don't care for it.

am i the only one who feels the english vocal work has declined in delivery and talent from from zc1 to ue to zc2?


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Skaadi
post May 1 2013, 06:02 PM
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Personally I don't think much has changed at all. I noticed a few of the characters got different voice actors (Deadra, Rimat,) but even with the new VA's there's still that same old stilted, awkward line delivery (not that I'm saying that as a negative, of course, because it fit the atmosphere perfectly.)

Now that you mention it though, I guess I preferred Zc1's Deadra VA better. This new one sounded...idk a bit too normal? As if she was someone you might run into in line at Starbucks. I suppose I also noticed Golem's lines were delivered a bit faster.

I'd say it's not so much bad as just different.
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sere
post May 1 2013, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (Skaadi @ May 1 2013, 06:02 PM) *
Personally I don't think much has changed at all. I noticed a few of the characters got different voice actors (Deadra, Rimat,) but even with the new VA's there's still that same old stilted, awkward line delivery (not that I'm saying that as a negative, of course, because it fit the atmosphere perfectly.)

Now that you mention it though, I guess I preferred Zc1's Deadra VA better. This new one sounded...idk a bit too normal? As if she was someone you might run into in line at Starbucks. I suppose I also noticed Golem's lines were delivered a bit faster.

I'd say it's not so much bad as just different.


im mostly critical of rimat. all the delivery in zc1 pc was perfect. every spoken bit was aloof right where it needed to be and could change to aggravated battery and assaut (rimat in zc1 pc for example). it was hmmmm idk, like the same special quality touching me like a contralto gypsy?

rimat for me has been transformed from the premier child of fathermother, "violence-ing" her way through the limited scope of her world for the sake of a family legacy that would vanish should the protagonist succeed.. transformed from that into the sorority girl baking sale brownies to raise awareness and funds for fathermother's legal fees :0 tough to fluff?

ill comb the forums and other materials to get some insights into the voice talent ace and/or atlus chose for these projects. interesting supplimental fan materail smile.gif


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Golden Yak
post May 1 2013, 06:44 PM
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I thought Rimat was still pretty angry sounding. She's not screaming "I'll kill you!" while swinging at you anymore, so it might not come across as much. There's a scene towards the end with the South Golem where she definitely sounds like her ZC1 self.
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Akashic
post May 1 2013, 09:11 PM
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The game pieces are probably so they don't get bored.

Anyways, if you could. Please explain the giant harp moon scene, and what became of the giant blue statue we saw at the end of ZC1! Also did Hunter die in the first game? I can't remember. I was hoping to see him again, as he was one of the coolest characters of ZC1, and what happened to Xetse? I couldn't find him at his little camel farm.
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Akashic
post May 1 2013, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (sere @ May 1 2013, 05:24 PM) *
im mostly critical of rimat. all the delivery in zc1 pc was perfect. every spoken bit was aloof right where it needed to be and could change to aggravated battery and assaut (rimat in zc1 pc for example). it was hmmmm idk, like the same special quality touching me like a contralto gypsy?

rimat for me has been transformed from the premier child of fathermother, "violence-ing" her way through the limited scope of her world for the sake of a family legacy that would vanish should the protagonist succeed.. transformed from that into the sorority girl baking sale brownies to raise awareness and funds for fathermother's legal fees :0 tough to fluff?

ill comb the forums and other materials to get some insights into the voice talent ace and/or atlus chose for these projects. interesting supplimental fan materail smile.gif



Speaking of voice acting. I actually preferred her old VA to the new one, because she's lost that Zenozoikan(?) flavor/accent, and now sounds like she wasn't raised around dozens of monsters with weird accents. Like you literally kidnapped a Caucasian tourist and forced them to read a script.

I'm not saying your new one is bad. They just don't fit as well as before. imoimoimoimo
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Andres Bordeu
post May 1 2013, 09:23 PM
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Hi guys, good voice acting is really difficult to do considering we have to produce dialogue for a language that we're not native speakers. I acknowledge that the female voices have always been the hardest for us to get right.

In relation to Rimat's performance: the dialogue in the previous game was much easier to get right, because yelling and acting in a high state of anger is more easy to pull off convincingly than when you're required to do a more broad amount of emotions. We actually tried out the previous VA for both Rimat and Deadra (was the same in ZC1), but it didn't work well this time around. I think you guys are also forgetting that we received quite a lot of criticism for female performances in the last game. Now that I've been reading posts for two days I can say that there's considerably less complaints about the voice acting this time around.

Perhaps it's that after you get accustomed to a particular voice it's hard to like a new interpretation. After hearing the new Rimat for a while I'm enjoying her performances a lot now. I also had difficulties getting used to the new performance at start.

And well, many of the main characters are the same people. Edmundo doing Golem, Father Mother and Golem, and Erik Gusky with Ghat, both which came out wonderfully in my opinion.
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Carlos Bordeu
post May 1 2013, 09:48 PM
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The "giant" blue statue at the end of ZC1 wasn't giant at all... I think you got confused by the camera angle. He was human size.

What you refer to as giant blue statue is no other than Nahuatl-Teh (The East Golem). Look closely - they have the same appearance.
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Golden Yak
post May 1 2013, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Akashic @ May 1 2013, 10:11 PM) *
The game pieces are probably so they don't get bored.


I thought it was interesting that the two active Golems have a Rubix cube and tarot cards as their 'totem', while the deceased Golems have a go board and chess set, two games that require another player - they are the ones who succumbed to the 'boredom' which brought about their demise, because they didn't have a game/puzzle they could engage in without another person around. Shadows and seagulls make poor company, it seems.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I also thought it was interesting that the South Golem's tarot cards are about divining the future, something that he himself didn't have, with his duty to guard the borders of Zenozoik indefinitely. Thus he was perhaps compelled to explore the lives and destinies of other beings, prompting his actions in Zenozoik.


QUOTE (Andres Bordeu @ May 1 2013, 10:23 PM) *
Hi guys, good voice acting is really difficult to do considering we have to produce dialogue for a language that we're not native speakers. I acknowledge that the female voices have always been the hardest for us to get right.


I genuinely feel that the dialect with the english language adds a lot to the feel of the game. I find it makes the world seem that much more exotic. I don't think it would be any more enjoyable with a different cast.

QUOTE (Carlos Bordeu @ May 1 2013, 10:48 PM) *
The "giant" blue statue at the end of ZC1 wasn't giant at all... I think you got confused by the camera angle. He was human size.

What you refer to as giant blue statue is no other than Nahuatl-Teh (The East Golem). Look closely - they have the same appearance.


Aaah, that was the first question I had on mind when I completed the Pink Tower. Wasn't sure it was the same character, what with the different lighting and all.

Shame we couldn't have met him while he was alive. The Golems are extremely interesting creatures.
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Skaadi
post May 2 2013, 01:08 AM
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One thing I will say for the South Golem, his VA did a really excellent job. I think a lot of those subtle changes in tone make all the difference.

Back to story discussion, the humans that put the Golems there didn't see terribly forward thinking. I mean, putting them in these positions and giving them one thing to keep them entertained? Imagine being stuck on a permanent work shift with nothing but a rubicks cube....forever. I suppose though it fits in more with the games aesthetic than say, an Xbox tongue.gif

I also found the Golems overall design to be really fascinating, I mean no mouths? I suppose it's a small thing, but I loved how you can sort of see the muscles around there moving slightly when he speaks even though he has no mouth.
Can anyone say:
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Fireborn
post May 2 2013, 01:26 AM
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Since we are dropping questions into here, I got a couple of my own.


1.) Are the Mantra Whisperers related to the Corwids or are they a group of their own?

2.) It's been hinted at in the game for a long time, that Zenozoik was built upon the ruins of another race at some point. For example the Tiamat people are using cloths and masks they found from someone else. Are those ruins just remnants of buildings by the human race (For example the large Tower in the desert) or did I miss something? Seems weird that they would build those huge buildings into an area they would end up using as an exile for Chimeras.

3.) I didn't get, why the West Golem had that bird inside of him and was able to move even though he seemed to be empty/dead. Was the bird a preexisting feature or did he somehow link his life with him? Or was it just for humor sake, and the Golem didn't need a body?

4.) What was it about that scene with the furniture appearing in the white room? Were there more then 3 pieces? I somehow expected you to add a door which you could then use to leave the white room but you just ended that scene.

5.) We got a small glimpses of what I presume to be Earth, when we touched the North Golems throne. From some landscape features, that we saw beyond endworld, I would assume, that Zenozoik is located on a terraformed moon (The Moon thats circling Earth). Is that close to the truth?
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tschumann
post May 2 2013, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (Fireborn @ May 2 2013, 03:26 PM) *

3.) I didn't get, why the West Golem had that bird inside of him and was able to move even though he seemed to be empty/dead. Was the bird a preexisting feature or did he somehow link his life with him? Or was it just for humor sake, and the Golem didn't need a body?



I believe the West Golem was dead but the Golems are partly mechanised and the mechanical parts can still work without the living part.

The pigeon was just using his dead body as a place to live.

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Skaadi
post May 2 2013, 03:13 AM
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I have nothing constructive to add to your post, but I wanted to say your display picture is fabulous

edit: Fireborn, that is
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tschumann
post May 2 2013, 03:16 AM
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Me or Fireborn?
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