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> Know your enemy: Judith, Gameplay demostration
Andres Bordeu
post Mar 12 2014, 09:31 AM
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This video is the first of a series where we will show the potential of the combat system applied to the enemies you can capture and use in the game. These combos, which are being displayed in the game's 'training room', were invented on the fly by Game Designer Carlos Bordeu.

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sere
post Mar 13 2014, 01:50 AM
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Ahhhh, the good stuff! Infinite juggles thankfully not present. Will the momentum decrease at a fixed rate or is it a variable (and if variable, will character level or progression have any influence?)

If I may offer some constructive criticism and other bits of feedback; Judith has some pretty slender limbs but the combo/move demonstration has her attacking up close and deep. Personally, I think it best for skinny characters to have better reach than what Judith is working with in the video. I am not saying this based on any of my years experience with fighting games or addressing the game necessarily as a fighter (I address it as the action-platformer with combat emphasis) but simply as a matter of what is most suitable visually. The "up close" behavior by a skinny limbed character appears slightly awkward and not quite in line with natural expectation. Maybe after a few more videos I can see how much reach and/or zoning might affect the balance of normal gameplay as well.

How much consideration or work have you put into giving a convincing illusion and feel for the weight of people and objects in the game? I hope the audio design also pays attention to this detail (but ofc doesn't need to overdo it). Also, please don't make gravity a fixed and universal force (video game physics heh) where on screen items of different sizes and suggestive weight fall at the same speed as if they were identical objects.

P.S. Judith's special to juggle into special was freaking awesome =D Using the simplified input style closer to Smash than SF makes it even better and a perfect fit for the pacing of an action platformer's gameplay.


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Carlos Bordeu
post Mar 13 2014, 08:32 AM
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The momentum decrease is fixed for every repeated attack, and it isn't something we want to level up or change.

The super slender figure of Judith is an "accident". Here's an interesting snippet of information about her: She was originally the female player character of the game, when we were aiming for a Harry-Clarke-esque Art Noveau style (which was much darker and more macabre). All Harry Clarke drawings have extremely slender and stylized humans, so that is where she came from. Her moveset was predefined then, so we just went on and just made her an enemy, later on when the visual style evolved.

In terms of weight, this is like Smash where all characters have their own gravity / physics. Note that this doesn't mean that the bigger enemies are always the heaviest. In smash the character that seems to have the greatest gravity pull is Fox, not Bowser. This is done for gameplay, not necessarily for realism.
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sere
post Mar 13 2014, 12:04 PM
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Your answer for the gravity is encouraging and very promising; not only that but also the fixed momentum decrease are exactly the answers I was hoping for.

As the launch draws nearer do you think we could see some posts of the concept art, earlier designs and screenshots to demonstrate some of the changes undertaken over the course of development? Harry Clarke is a very fine source of inspiration.

Looking forward to the next video so I can ask more questions tongue.gif


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Arpogest
post Mar 14 2014, 06:22 AM
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Ah, at several points I wished for better collision detection between characters and environment wink.gif
But again I'm really amazed with diversity of your projects, the bold approach you take on both art and gameplay sides is incredibly inspiring!
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Andres Bordeu
post Mar 17 2014, 08:07 PM
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Thanks for the feedback! Do you refer to the clipping in between the walls and the characters when they are knocked? This is a bit intentional, but not for cosmetic purposes. Essentially we are keeping physics very simplistic so they will not interfere with the gameplay mechanics. We could have opted for other approaches like including ragdoll physics, but this would have probably introduced several problems or forced us to change how the gameplay feels. We're giving more relevance to the mechanics more so than visual details.

Maybe the introduction of some particle effects could attenuate the issue a bit?
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sere
post Mar 17 2014, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (Andres Bordeu @ Mar 17 2014, 08:07 PM) *
Maybe the introduction of some particle effects could attenuate the issue a bit?


Like elusive green men with hammers?

joke aside, particle effects would be in good order if introduced imo


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Andres Bordeu
post Mar 19 2014, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE (sere @ Mar 17 2014, 11:22 PM) *
Like elusive green men with hammers?


?.?
You're talking about those creepy citizens in Zeno Clash 2, right? :-)
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Elenco2
post Mar 20 2014, 12:25 PM
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Really nice fighting gameplay!!, i think you are making a sweet game, can't wait to play it smile.gif I'm ready registered to follow it

keep up the good work wink.gif
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Andres Bordeu
post Mar 20 2014, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (Elenco2 @ Mar 20 2014, 01:25 PM) *
keep up the good work wink.gif


Thanks a lot! :-)
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Floyd
post Jun 2 2014, 12:49 AM
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Cool snippet of information about Judith's design history. I'd never heard of Harry Clarke, but I'm sifting through some images now and I really enjoy what I'm seeing. It reminds me a little of Aubrey Beardsley. I love all of it! Thanks for sharing.

You've got a fantastic art sense. I really felt the Bosch influence in the Zeno Clash games and I approve.

Rock of Ages was like being back in Art History again.

I'm just going to end up owning every game ACE Team makes. XD
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Andres Bordeu
post Jun 2 2014, 05:49 PM
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Thanks for the feedback! We're always looking into novel art directions to inspire our games, so I'm glad people are perceiving this. Who knows what we'll draw inspiration from in the future! smile.gif
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